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 Question for the DKs

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Osis
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PostSubject: Question for the DKs   5/15/2009, 1:17 am

So I was listening to Warcraft Outsiders today, and Michelle was asking about her inability to find a definitive spec (can't recall if it was tanking or dps) for DKs and asking for help, and it occurred to me, as one who has basically only done the DK starting area, that I hear that a lot about DK's. No one has a definitive solution to the different specs a DK can perform. And yet, I always hear about how DKs excel in both dps and tanking in all three trees. So I'm wondering: has Blizz done the impossible and created a perfectly balance class? And based on the good amount of consternation amongst players, is that neccessarily a good thing to not have specifically defined trees for different specs?
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PostSubject: Re: Question for the DKs   5/15/2009, 12:47 pm

I certainly think that Blizzard is getting a lot better at balancing different trees. The DK is different from the rest because they were able to make it much later with a much better idea of what they wanted from from the classes and their specs.

Can you DPS as all 3 specs?

Short answer: Yes

Long Answer: While you can DPS in all three spec, Blood and Unholy are currently doing better than frost. As far as I can tell Unholy comes out a little over Blood. While this seems cool, understand that a lot of classes are going through this change. I played a Warlock for a long time, and as of 3.1 the talent trees have never been closer together on damage output. From what I have read, Hunters are in the same boat. Generally speaking you could show up to a raid as Destro or Afflic as a Warlock, and Surv or MM as a Hunter. BM, Demo, and Frost for DKs are in the same boat they can do well and contribute, but you will have to convice your group.

Can you Tank all 3 specs?

Short Answer: Hunter Pets can tank if your good enough so I guess ANYTHING is possible. Sure Why not?

Long Answer:I haven't tanked as a DK yet. I am still building up my Def gear. I have had DK tanks that were either a joke or Godly in my Heroics. Currently, from what I have read, Frost is the king of tanking. Unholy has taken some hits and Blood was never very popular due to low mitigation. With decent enough gear you COULD probably tank well enough as Unholy and maybe even Blood, but you are probably holding yourself back. I do enjoy the fact that when my group gets into trouble I can pop Frost Aura/unbreakable armor, and off tank for a few sec, but I dont last long.

I never liked the this is your PvP tree, this is your Damage Tree, and this is your Tank/Heal etc Tree. So in that regard I like the way that Blizz is going. I am a min/maxer so I will always be testing and have the #1 dps spec blah blah blah, but I like that people can play around or do what they want. I like the fact that we can invite a DK into a group for DPS, and just because he is specced Frost for DPS it doesnt mean he is an idiot, and he won't neccesarily bring us down.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for the DKs   5/18/2009, 5:38 pm

I am really happy with Blizz and the way they have built the DK trees. Yes, you can dps in all three and you can tank in all three. The thing with not getting a definitive answer on a spec, basically, there is no definitive spec.

There are points in every spec that are kind of "optional" although there are only a few for each tree. Right now I am unholy for dps and I find it to be the simplest and least dependent on group make-up for productivity (even without alot of supportive buffs from other members I can do pretty well dps-wise). But honestly, they all shine in different circumstances. Fights like Hodir where you get a crit bonus, frost generally does better. Other fights change the dynamic and other trees do better.

As to tanking, all 3 trees are viable and they have strengths and weaknesses. I prefer Frost simply because I take more consistent damage than I do in the other trees. Blood has cooldowns that make healing a bit easier and Unholy is solid, especially if you have enough avoidance to keep bone shield up for a fair amount of time. I may move to Unholy once I have more avoidance, but for now, I enjoy frost and it's failry simple to deal with.

As to Blizz creating a perfectly balanced clas... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, lost it there for a sec. I think Blizz has done a great job making all three trees viable for anything you want to do as a DK, but class balance for DK's is still a ways off. I suspect we will get another round of nerfs (and yes, they are likely deserved) in the next major content patch. I will say, however that blizz has given more flexibility in HOW we tank or dps than they have to any other class. I wish all classes had it this good and we're seeing a move in that direction, I think.

Hopefully Blizz keeps it baby steps as they move forward with working on other classes trees, otherwise all kinds of crazy stuff will happen. My old track coach used to say, "Don't change too much at once. If something goes bad, you won't be able to troubleshoot it. If you change one thing at a time and all is well, move on. Otherwise fix what you changed and change something else."
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PostSubject: Re: Question for the DKs   5/19/2009, 1:26 am

currently, my main dk, im lvling up as frost dps, it seems very fun
i tried blood but its all smash buttons and hit death coil a couple of times
and for some reason horde lvls like crazy! im lvl 65 and just started zangarmarsh
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PostSubject: Re: Question for the DKs   5/19/2009, 2:54 am

Nice responses guys. I was curious if I had stumbled upon an unrealized ideal or was just too unfamiliar with DK's to realize they still have issues. Sounds like there are still issues, but the DK is the closest to balanced that Blizz has made yet.

Mostly I just wanted to get people thinking and discussing. Always looking for a nice exchange of ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for the DKs   5/19/2009, 11:34 am

Yeah the DK is the best balanced and most well done class in the game imho. I think that they have learned a lot about class balance over the years. I really hope they keep it up and make more well done hero classes.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for the DKs   5/19/2009, 1:22 pm

The Death Knight for me has been very frustrating and fun at the same time.

First it is a new class and in that I am subject to nerfs and people doggin on DKs all the time for OP. I played diseasless blood before 3.1 and it was fun. 3 buttons and everything worked. Then the change came and they took my spec and I was sad, but now I am Frost Spec and now I am cranking out more DPS than before, but in that I always read the patch notes thinking how am I getting nerfed this time.

Second changing from DPS to Tanking is as easy as changing gear and into frost presence. I am not dual spec because I haven't felt a need to. I know I am missing the tank talents and the best AoE to hold agro but I make it work.

The DK is an interesting class and fun to play. Changing mains I dont regret but I do miss my warr from time to time.

and I agree with Hafrot "Hopefully Blizz keeps it baby steps as they move forward with working on other classes trees"

l8r,
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