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 3.2 - "Remedial Raiding Patch of '09"

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What do you think about these changes?
I think that these changes devalue the effort it takes to be a raider.
46%
 46% [ 33 ]
I think that leveling the playing field regardless of time and effort is a good thing.
30%
 30% [ 21 ]
I think that these changes don't really matter.
24%
 24% [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 71
 

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Stumpalina
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PostSubject: Re: 3.2 - "Remedial Raiding Patch of '09"   7/22/2009, 11:28 am

They should do a census/survey of those players who actually spend time raiding, and what they think of the changes. And, now knowing that the Coliseum is (EASY BUTTON) epics, it just proves the point that they are trying to encourage the casual players who might have never stepped foot in raid content.

My stance has changed greatly since I first started this thread. The fact is: Since Haf and I started a new guild a few weeks back we have had an overwhelming response from players who haven't had the opprotunity to see and experience raid content the way that we have. That, coupled with these badge changes, and the pending Coliseum raid instance will provide wondrous opportunities for these new raiders, and hopefully encourage existing raiders to continue to battle with this mediocre casual-style content.

In the end, raiding isn't the end-all-be-all of the game. It just just content. And, if you are experiencing the content with people you enjoy playing with, who cares if the epics are passed out like popcorn. I, for one, am looking forward to gearing up for Icecrown with the people in our guild, just just the characters they play.
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PostSubject: Re: 3.2 - "Remedial Raiding Patch of '09"   7/22/2009, 11:44 am

Stompalina wrote:
In the end, raiding isn't the end-all-be-all of the game. It just just content. And, if you are experiencing the content with people you enjoy playing with, who cares if the epics are passed out like popcorn.

I don't think I'm ever going to be able to commit to raiding like most hardcore folks do. Even if I wanted to, I'll never have that kind of time. At least the way that Blizz is going, I think I'll feel like I'm getting the most out of the game, rather than hitting 80 and saying, "Wow, huh. Guess I'm done," because I can't get into raid content because I'm going to be an eternal PUGer.

I can see the hard-cores' point of view, but from someone who will always be casual, and has been for some time, this is a great way for them to tell me I'm no longer a second-class citizen.


Last edited by KDubs85 on 7/22/2009, 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed the quote box)
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PostSubject: Re: 3.2 - "Remedial Raiding Patch of '09"   7/22/2009, 11:49 am

Stompalina wrote:
They should do a census/survey of those players who actually spend time raiding, and what they think of the changes. And, now knowing that the Coliseum is (EASY BUTTON) epics, it just proves the point that they are trying to encourage the casual players who might have never stepped foot in raid content.

I just wish Bliz would stop making things Easier (skill wise) and just make them more accessible(time/player's needed). It just seems like they are taking the easy way out. Casuals aren't seeing the endgame, so lets just make it easier to kill. When the real reason casuals aren't seeing endgame is because it requires you to have 10+ people dedicate 4 straight hours. And although that doesn't seem like much to a Hardcore player; for me to say "Next Tuesday I promise to be online from 5-9" to my guild is just not possible.
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PostSubject: Re: 3.2 - "Remedial Raiding Patch of '09"   7/23/2009, 12:39 pm

Stompalina wrote:
They should do a census/survey of those players who actually spend time raiding, and what they think of the changes. And, now knowing that the Coliseum is (EASY BUTTON) epics, it just proves the point that they are trying to encourage the casual players who might have never stepped foot in raid content.

My stance has changed greatly since I first started this thread. The fact is: Since Haf and I started a new guild a few weeks back we have had an overwhelming response from players who haven't had the opprotunity to see and experience raid content the way that we have. That, coupled with these badge changes, and the pending Coliseum raid instance will provide wondrous opportunities for these new raiders, and hopefully encourage existing raiders to continue to battle with this mediocre casual-style content.

In the end, raiding isn't the end-all-be-all of the game. It just just content. And, if you are experiencing the content with people you enjoy playing with, who cares if the epics are passed out like popcorn. I, for one, am looking forward to gearing up for Icecrown with the people in our guild, just just the characters they play.

Do my eyes deceive me Stomp? Say it isn't so. Raiding not the end all be all? hehe

Of course it isn't. It never has been. People just get very tunnel visioned because they spend too much time doing one thing and its importance gets way blown out of proportion.

Welcome to guild leadership. =) Its about the people not the purples.
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PostSubject: Re: 3.2 - "Remedial Raiding Patch of '09"   7/23/2009, 1:06 pm

While raiding may not be the penultimate moment for everyone, it is a driving force for a great many. The problem is that there are only so many raids available and there is not something out there for everyone.

As it stands, Naxxramas is a casual-style raid. You can take a group, go do a wing in about an hour to an hour and a half and then stop for the night. Come back tomorrow and do another wing. So on and so forth.

Ulduar, un-nerfed except for bugs, should have been for the hardcore raiders. If that had been left alone and stayed a truly over-the-top challenging encounter then I don't think there would be as much complaining from the hardcore camp.

However, the casuals feel cheated out of seeing content and the hardcore raiders feel cheated out of challenges. How do you meet them both in the middle? I think the answer was the Coliseum. Unfortunately, this may not pan out the way Blizzard intended. Maybe it will and maybe there will be 5 man raids that match in quality to a 10 or 25 man raid. Maybe the 25 man raids will stay extremely challenging and only the truly elite will master them. We can hope.

Myself, I am a little tired of raiding to get the purples and agree that it should be more about the people you raid with than the stuff you raid for. Don't get me wrong, I love loot, but it is lot more rewarding to teach other people how to do a tough boss fight than it is to parade around in a new cloak. Well, in the long run it is anyway. Prancing in a cloak is always a little fun at first. :flower:
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PostSubject: Re: 3.2 - "Remedial Raiding Patch of '09"   7/24/2009, 4:07 pm

Just finished listening to the latest Blue Plz (S3 Ep.39) and i think TB says it best.

Quote: TB -

"Well i suppose you'd have to look at what it really takes to be a "Casual". <yea> If we look at the idea of a Casual player, you can see the definition as being someone who maybe doesn't play all that much, and plays irregularly, and plays at non scheduled times when their schedule allows them to. That i suppose would be the difference between a casual and a hardcore player. A hard core player will make room in their life for WoW. <yea> Where as a casual player, well they will find room in their life and then maybe WoW will go there; if there is any room in their life.They wont go out of their way to reschedule something in order to play some World of Warcraft. Now of course what that naturally means is that Casual players will suffer as regards as to the ability to raid, because they are not willing to commit themselves to specific times. Now as far as i'm concerned if you commit yourself to a specific time, then you are not a casual player

... Casual doesn't mean anything in terms of skill level; or at least it shouldn't at all. Why would it? We already know that WoW is not a particularily skillful game to begin with. I mean raiding basically comes down to (until you get to particularily high level) do what you're told, and don't stand in the fire! It's not really that tricky, let's face it. Any casual player can do that. Anyone able to turn up to work every day and do their job with a minimum of mistakes are able to raid. Unless your job is working at McDonallds... I dono, even then you can make a burger correctly! If you can make a burger correctly then you can certainly raid!"


Now i disagree how he goes on to say Naxx is a Casual raid later on in the episode. Because although it is broken into quarters, they are not treated as so since it is all in the same Instance and shares the same ID#. Now if they actually separated the quarters into different instances with different Raid ID's THEN i would say it is the ideal casual's raid. Which i think they should of done.

Well what about Saph and Kel? Personally i'd say just put them in their own instance as well. A boss fight shouldn't be hard because of the fights leading up to it, it should be hard, well.... because the boss is hard? If a raid wants to just do Saph and Kel they shouldn't have to go through hours of bosses that they don't care about. They should have to do the easier bosses because the hardest boss is so hard that they NEED gear from the earlier bosses.

I see Naxx as a failed attempt of Blizzard's to make a casual Raid. Instead of changing the time it takes to run through they just nerfed it to hell. All that did was piss off the Hard Core, and allow the Bad players who have time get gear.
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